Transcript
[0:01] Welcome to the Call and Response podcast
[0:04] with Krishna Das, a gathering of stories
[0:06] and conversations dedicated to bringing
[0:08] spirituality into our daily lives. Call
[0:12] and Response podcast is an offering of
[0:14] the Kirtan Wallah Foundation, which is
[0:16] devoted to spreading the teachings of
[0:18] Neem Karoli Baba, a great spiritual
[0:20] teacher of India.
[0:22] If you're interested in supporting this
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[0:26] please visit kirtanwallahfoundation.org.
[0:30] And please visit krishnadas.com
[0:33] for more offerings like this, including
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[0:38] gifts, online courses, workshops, and
[0:42] more.
[0:43] In 2026, we've updated our digital
[0:45] library to include harmonium tutorials
[0:48] volumes 1 and 2, fireside stories with
[0:51] Krishna Das, KD's newest album Home in
[0:54] the Heart, and much more.
[0:57] This episode is brought to you by Sohum
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[1:31] Thanks for listening.
[1:38] My conversations are usually not
[1:40] recorded.
[1:41] Probably for good reason.
[1:43] Someone once asked Maharaji, "Isn't it
[1:45] hypocritical to worship worship God when
[1:47] you are not sincere
[1:49] in your devotion?" Well, that's a good
[1:51] question cuz who's really sincere,
[1:53] right?
[1:55] So many people come and talk to me and
[1:58] share their issues with me and problems
[2:01] on the path. And I always say, you have
[2:03] the longing and you know what you're
[2:05] looking for. And the longing, on one
[2:07] hand, it ruins your life.
[2:11] And on the other hand, it saves your
[2:13] life at the same time.
[2:17] I remember when Ram Dass
[2:22] We were at Brighton Bush, uh this is a
[2:24] long time ago.
[2:25] Soon after the stroke.
[2:28] A few years after the stroke. He decided
[2:30] that
[2:32] he would um
[2:34] try to uh
[2:36] talk with the group
[2:38] without smoking dope.
[2:42] For the first time in 60 years or
[2:44] something like that.
[2:46] So, he was in total panic, right?
[2:49] What am I going to say? What will I do,
[2:51] you know? I said, "Look, just go out
[2:54] and say, we will sit in silence until
[2:57] someone has something to say." And he
[3:00] said, "Oh, that'll never work." I said,
[3:01] "Just try it. Just try it." So, he came
[3:04] out and he said, "We will sit in silence
[3:07] until someone has something to say."
[3:10] Every All the hands went up like in
[3:12] about a quarter of a second.
[3:14] He was worried that, you know, that
[3:15] nobody would say anything.
[3:18] So.
[3:24] Could be an happy time for the dogs,
[3:25] too. You never know.
[3:27] So, you didn't smoke today?
[3:29] Huh?
[3:30] Did I smoke today? I Not only did I
[3:32] smoke today,
[3:34] it's probably been about 40 years or
[3:37] maybe more.
[3:41] What am I talking about? 50 years.
[3:44] Hi. Hi. Um I hope this isn't too silly,
[3:48] but I
[3:48] >> I hope it is. Turn it up. If it's silly,
[3:50] I I want to hear it. Okay.
[3:53] I've I've always wondered uh
[3:56] after Maharaji gave you the orders to
[3:58] sing,
[3:59] what you sounded like
[4:01] when you first started.
[4:03] You'll never know.
[4:08] I just shh be Okay.
[4:10] Does she know? You know? No, she doesn't
[4:12] know.
[4:13] >> Maybe she can do an impression. I
[4:15] Somewhere actually I made a I
[4:18] The first thing I recorded
[4:21] was probably about
[4:23] mm about a year and a half or 2 years
[4:25] before One Track Heart was recorded. We
[4:28] recorded it out in Taos, New Mexico.
[4:32] And uh
[4:34] how should I put it?
[4:36] It's cringeworthy.
[4:40] It's so horrible.
[4:42] I I just like I can't even bear to think
[4:45] about it.
[4:49] And even I uh Oh, you don't want to hear
[4:51] all this.
[4:53] Oh, you do?
[4:55] I even don't like One Track Heart.
[4:59] I'm sorry. Except for the Davey Pujo was
[5:01] very good.
[5:03] Because I can hear my mind, you see?
[5:07] I was thinking.
[5:08] How do you do this? What should I do?
[5:10] What about that?
[5:11] A- and I could hear my mind. Every time
[5:13] I listen to that, it's like ooh.
[5:16] But by Pilgrim Heart, that was a whole
[5:18] other thing.
[5:19] And then from then on, God knows what it
[5:21] is.
[5:22] I hope.
[5:24] So, yeah.
[5:29] It was just so much
[5:32] less in between my ears these days. It's
[5:35] scary sometimes.
[5:42] Hey, look who's here.
[5:45] Qué pasa?
[5:46] Yeah, you, idiot.
[5:48] Yeah.
[5:51] Good.
[5:55] That's how That's how I treat my good
[5:57] friends.
[6:02] Anybody else?
[6:04] Oh, we're going to fix change the
[6:05] battery.
[6:13] Yeah, it's been a strange long strange
[6:15] trip. I mean, Ram Dass and I was
[6:18] in my in Maui, we used to sit at after
[6:20] after breakfast, we would sit at the
[6:21] table together for hours and hours.
[6:23] Everybody else would go away.
[6:26] And we just kind of sit in silence and
[6:28] talk and silence and talk. So, when day
[6:31] I turned the phone on
[6:33] a recording
[6:35] and we sat there for hours.
[6:38] So, when it was over, I said, "You know,
[6:40] I recorded this." And he goes, "Oh."
[6:43] I said, "What should I call it?"
[6:47] He said,
[6:49] "Call it
[6:51] Dick and Jeff's journey to What did he
[6:54] say?
[6:56] Uh Dick and Jeff's journey to soul
[6:58] land."
[7:06] Yeah, what a journey.
[7:18] Hello.
[7:19] Testing. Testing. There it is. Thank
[7:21] you. Testing. Testing. Hello, Krishna
[7:23] Dass. I've waited 20 years to say this.
[7:27] You're on my bucket list and I'm sorry
[7:29] I'm going to tell everybody how old you
[7:30] are right now. But Don't be sorry. I'm
[7:33] still alive. Okay.
[7:35] Be sorry if I wasn't. I You're I Last
[7:38] year when I realized you were 75, I knew
[7:40] I I to come and see you after 20 years
[7:43] cuz I'm like I'm like you might be gone.
[7:45] So
[7:46] I was like I got at least 20 minutes
[7:49] left.
[7:49] >> I wanted to give YOU A HUG. I'M LIKE OH
[7:51] MY GOD, YOU'RE STILL ALIVE. THANK you
[7:52] for breathing. Thank you for continuing
[7:54] to breathe. I know it's an effort but
[7:56] make that effort. I'm actually not any
[7:58] more alive than I was before I had this
[8:00] body but that's okay.
[8:02] >> That's good. Actually I have a question.
[8:04] I've been studying Sikhism and I noticed
[8:07] that the names Krishna Das I'm sorry.
[8:10] No, I'm just using
[8:11] >> Krishna Das and Ram Das I noticed that
[8:13] Ram Das was a name that came from the
[8:15] Sikh tradition and I was wondering if
[8:17] >> come from the Sikh tradition. It's and
[8:19] it just means servant of God. It's from
[8:21] all the traditions. All the same. There
[8:23] is a Guru Ram Das of course in the Sikh
[8:26] tradition but the name itself is it's
[8:29] just like John or Frank or Tony in
[8:31] English.
[8:31] >> So there wasn't like a significance to
[8:33] why Neem Karoli Baba named named you
[8:36] guys Krishna Das and Well the sig- the
[8:38] significance is that Maharaj is Hanuman
[8:41] and that's the Ram the tradition of Ram
[8:44] and Das means servant. Hanuman is the
[8:46] servant. So part of that lineage. So the
[8:49] the Das the Dases and the Nandases are
[8:52] all part of that
[8:53] with Maharaj. Thank you. You're welcome.
[8:56] Was that worth 20 years waiting?
[8:59] One of them one of the things. Just
[9:01] being in front of you is enough. Oh
[9:03] really?
[9:09] Thank you.
[9:13] You can't pay for that. I mean how do
[9:14] you how do you get something like that?
[9:17] There you go. So God bless you. Thank
[9:18] you for all your music. Thank you for a
[9:20] lifetime of music. You've changed my
[9:22] life and you'll continue to change my
[9:24] life for the rest of my life. So I
[9:26] appreciate it.
[9:32] You're not supposed to bow with a
[9:34] microphone. So give me the microphone.
[9:39] I am
[9:40] good. Cool. Thank you.
[9:44] Hi. Hello. Hi. I was introduced to your
[9:48] chanting when I was 12 years old and
[9:51] then 2 years ago?
[9:52] >> No, no. Oh, no, no.
[9:54] 15.
[9:56] Um and then about 5 years later I got
[9:58] involved uh heavenly involved in a
[10:00] spiritual institution where I did kirtan
[10:02] a lot. Mhm. Um both leading and um just
[10:05] being in the audience responding, but it
[10:07] was an environment where there was um it
[10:09] was just very damaging and destructive
[10:12] and there was a lot of ego and spiritual
[10:14] bypassing. And now that I'm out of it,
[10:17] um I'm feeling that really damaged my
[10:20] relationship to the holy names of all
[10:22] kinds.
[10:23] And I still want, of course, to
[10:26] cultivate a relationship with them uh in
[10:29] my heart, but as I'm starting to be
[10:32] exposed to kirtan outside of that
[10:34] environment that I was in,
[10:36] I'm just feeling all of the the
[10:38] blockages and I'm wondering if you have
[10:41] any suggestions or advice on how to
[10:43] Yeah, sure. Yeah, repair that. Can you
[10:46] brighten it up just a touch?
[10:48] Um
[10:51] First of all, let's let's
[10:53] just think about chanting for a second.
[10:55] When we sit down to chant,
[10:58] the biggest obstacles are expectations.
[11:01] We think something's supposed to happen.
[11:04] Problem is it already happened.
[11:06] We're here.
[11:08] But we don't know it.
[11:11] So, what we're trying to do is come back
[11:13] home.
[11:15] We're not looking for any particular
[11:16] kind of experience. We're not You might
[11:19] be looking for bliss or ecstasy, but
[11:21] that actually might be just running away
[11:22] from suffering.
[11:25] And you can't run away from things, nor
[11:27] can you hold on to things. So, when you
[11:29] sit down to chant or or remember the
[11:32] name silently or or outwardly.
[11:36] You just
[11:38] when you notice your thinking, whether
[11:40] it's positive or negative or fantasy or
[11:43] fear,
[11:44] you notice it and you come back to the
[11:46] name.
[11:47] You see, you can always come back.
[11:51] That's the beauty of the name. You can
[11:53] always come back
[11:55] from whatever you're thinking.
[11:56] You just have to You have to notice that
[11:59] you're thinking. So, you notice you're
[12:01] stuck, you have all these negative
[12:02] stories that are going on. Okay, so
[12:05] come back.
[12:07] That's all you have to do. And the more
[12:08] you do that,
[12:10] the more often we come back,
[12:13] the less glued we are to those stories.
[12:16] And then they'll Eventually, they just
[12:18] come through like Indian food.
[12:24] Right through.
[12:26] But, they call it practice for a reason.
[12:29] You have to It's a repetition of
[12:31] training ourselves to let go again and
[12:33] again.
[12:34] And
[12:37] you might think, "Oh, it's unfortunate
[12:39] that I have all this negativity about
[12:42] the name." But, it doesn't matter what
[12:44] the negativity is about.
[12:46] It's not really about the name. It's
[12:48] about your experience with that group
[12:50] and the names involved with that.
[12:52] But, it it doesn't really matter what
[12:55] what the what the subject matter is of
[12:57] the negativity. As soon as you notice
[12:59] that you're stuck, you're actually not
[13:01] stuck at that moment.
[13:04] I mean, the
[13:05] the
[13:07] the mist of the stuck might be around,
[13:09] but you actually if you're noticing,
[13:11] you're no longer that stuck.
[13:13] That's when you rededicate yourself just
[13:15] to the sound of the name.
[13:17] You don't push it away and you don't
[13:19] grab onto the name. You just
[13:22] remember it.
[13:24] You see, inside everything's totally
[13:26] cool.
[13:27] It's just the next bump out, we're
[13:29] totally
[13:32] Everybody is the same. You see, every It
[13:35] doesn't matter what the
[13:37] the subject matter is. Everybody's
[13:39] screwed up.
[13:40] One thing or another.
[13:43] But the letting go is exactly the same
[13:45] for everybody.
[13:46] And here's the other
[13:48] thing.
[13:49] So, you sit down, you're going to
[13:50] practice, and you you know, all of a
[13:52] sudden you got all this stuff going on
[13:53] on and on.
[13:54] And then you notice
[13:57] How did that happen? That you noticed
[13:59] you were stuck. That you noticed you
[14:00] were thinking.
[14:03] You woke up for a second.
[14:06] Now,
[14:07] nothing can happen
[14:10] without a cause.
[14:12] Can the cause of waking up be
[14:15] asleepness?
[14:17] No.
[14:18] The cause of waking up can only be that
[14:20] we planted seeds of waking up
[14:21] previously.
[14:23] So, that's already working. Underneath
[14:26] what you think you are and what you
[14:28] think you're doing, there's a whole
[14:30] karmic flow going on.
[14:33] So,
[14:34] you just keep letting go into that again
[14:36] and again. And you don't try to push
[14:38] away the negative. You look at it.
[14:41] Allow it to be. You can really learn a
[14:43] lot. You know, like one of my one of the
[14:45] lamas I studied with talks about the
[14:47] handshake practice.
[14:49] He says, "Okay, you sit around and
[14:50] something comes in like some negative
[14:52] thing, negative feeling. And you go,
[14:54] 'Oh, hi.
[14:56] How are you doing? I know you. Yeah, you
[14:57] weren't you here just 10 minutes ago? I
[14:59] think you were, yeah.
[15:00] Yeah, so you Come on, come on in. Have a
[15:02] cup of tea. What do you like in your
[15:03] tea? Poison? Okay.
[15:05] I got some of that.
[15:08] Okay, never mind. I won't give you
[15:10] poison. Just come in, have some
[15:11] something. How about sugar? That's
[15:12] pretty bad for you.
[15:16] But the thing is, don't be afraid.
[15:19] You're here.
[15:21] Whatever happened happened, but you're
[15:22] still here. You're here now.
[15:24] And 10 minutes from now you'll still be
[15:26] here now. And tomorrow and next week
[15:29] you'll be here now.
[15:31] So, it's just a matter of remembering
[15:34] to let go
[15:36] and just be.
[15:37] Don't try to make something happen.
[15:40] It already happened. And nothing we can
[15:43] create in our minds or
[15:45] you know, I want this kind of feeling. I
[15:46] want to have this kind of None of that
[15:48] could never last because we created it.
[15:51] This is why Groucho Marx is my guru.
[15:56] He used to say, "I'll never join any
[15:58] club that I'm invited to to join."
[16:02] And that's perfect cuz I don't want I
[16:04] don't want to join anything I can create
[16:06] in my mind
[16:07] or my emotions.
[16:09] It won't last.
[16:12] So, but what lasts is what is here now
[16:16] and what will always be right here now,
[16:17] which is our true nature, who we really
[16:19] are.
[16:21] So, it's good.
[16:22] And then you have resentment
[16:25] for being stuck.
[16:27] But
[16:28] there's a secret in that.
[16:30] And the secret is
[16:33] the lesson of betrayal
[16:36] is trust.
[16:40] Not only other people's betrayal, but we
[16:43] gave ourselves away.
[16:48] So,
[16:49] how it's how we learn to trust.
[16:53] We forgive ourselves for being
[16:56] how shall we put it?
[17:02] And needy.
[17:04] And greedy.
[17:06] And wanting this and wanting that and
[17:08] all the reasons we would join any kind
[17:10] of group and be attracted that
[17:11] underneath the surface.
[17:14] We have to forgive ourselves for that
[17:15] cuz it's just like everybody. We're just
[17:17] like everybody else.
[17:20] But the lesson
[17:22] that we learn, that we are that that's
[17:24] imprinted on us
[17:26] from betraying our own hearts, is
[17:30] learning how to trust that heart.
[17:32] Because that's what you're doing now.
[17:34] It's just a little unfamiliar, that's
[17:36] all.
[17:37] But that's okay.
[17:41] Thank you. Yeah.
[17:45] I mean, I was in a cult myself, you
[17:46] know. So, I know what it's like.
[17:49] Fun.
[18:01] Thank you. Hi. Hi. Um
[18:04] two things. One may be silly.
[18:07] Um and then the other one's more
[18:09] practical.
[18:10] The first one is
[18:12] I think I remember seeing or reading
[18:14] that uh
[18:16] Maraji threw fruit at you.
[18:19] Everybody. Right.
[18:22] If you were thinking.
[18:24] Anytime. Anytime.
[18:27] He needed no no reason to throw fruit.
[18:31] He wasn't throwing it at you. He was
[18:32] distributing prasada in all directions.
[18:36] But if he wanted to, he could hit you
[18:38] right in the head, you know.
[18:41] Okay, maybe I misunderstood. Yeah, it
[18:43] wasn't it wasn't a violent act. Okay.
[18:46] Oh.
[18:47] Cuz I the Yeah, I wanted to ask if it
[18:49] worked.
[18:50] >> So, sometimes No, didn't work.
[18:53] It would It would could be a wake-up
[18:54] call, you know, like bringing you back
[18:57] from outer space cuz you're sitting in
[18:58] front of him thinking about, you know,
[19:00] some movie you saw back in New York 30
[19:02] years ago. Boom. Boom.
[19:04] Okay.
[19:05] >> But
[19:06] very gentle. I mean, it Yeah. However, I
[19:08] once got hit in the heart with a hard
[19:11] unripe guava
[19:14] from a from from about 50 yards away by
[19:17] a by a
[19:18] a baba who was 270 years old. Wow.
[19:23] He hit me and I I turned away from him
[19:25] and I went
[19:28] And he was so far away I could hardly
[19:30] see him, you know, there were like a
[19:31] thousand people there and I
[19:34] And
[19:34] then Maharaj he just kind of
[19:36] Oh, okay. Soft bananas usually, not not
[19:39] hard guavas. I'm going to update my
[19:41] visual. Yeah, okay. Love that. Okay.
[19:44] And the other question was um
[19:47] I have a family. I have three kids and I
[19:49] have many
[19:50] many people in my house and I don't
[19:52] really have like a sanctuary that I
[19:54] could go to and do this. Um
[19:56] and so and I'm from Iceland so
[19:58] >> That's what the bathroom is for.
[20:02] True.
[20:04] And I'm
[20:05] um
[20:06] So I'm I'm from Iceland and I do the
[20:08] Thursdays a lot.
[20:09] >> Well, I love Iceland. I've been there so
[20:10] many times. Did I see you there?
[20:12] No. No. Okay. Um yeah, I
[20:16] I loved it there.
[20:16] >> you after. Yeah. But um
[20:19] uh
[20:20] and so it's at like midnight or
[20:22] something and sometimes or 11:00 at
[20:24] night and so I'll go for walks
[20:27] in the
[20:28] empty cold tundra with my dog
[20:31] and
[20:32] I'm so I'm walking and moving when I'm
[20:35] listening and
[20:37] chanting. Is that okay? Sure. Any any
[20:40] any time you remember the name is good.
[20:42] Yeah. You're planting a seed.
[20:44] You know, if you're walking on a
[20:46] tightrope 3,000 ft off the ground, maybe
[20:48] you should pay attention more to the
[20:50] rope, but you know, if you fall, the
[20:52] name will be there, so that's good.
[20:56] Thank you. Where in Where in Iceland are
[20:57] you from?
[20:58] I'm from the north, but I live in
[21:00] Reykjavik now. Uh-huh. Yeah.
[21:02] Very good. I loved it there, boy.
[21:05] Will you come back? You know, this this
[21:07] is a country that the government they
[21:09] believe in gnomes and stuff like that,
[21:12] you know? And there's this certain rock
[21:13] formations that they believe these
[21:15] gnomes live in. So, if the government's
[21:17] building a road,
[21:19] they build the road around the
[21:21] foundation.
[21:23] Not like America where they they they
[21:25] destroy cities just to put a road up,
[21:27] you know? They move 50,000 people just
[21:29] to make a highway. In In Iceland, they
[21:31] go around it like that.
[21:34] It's so cool.
[21:36] Yeah.
[21:37] We we had a I had a great time there.
[21:38] Loved it. We were there twice or once?
[21:42] I don't remember. Once, maybe.
[21:44] What were we like? Huh? What were we
[21:47] like? We were very nice. Yeah?
[21:56] I've just never seen a harmonium on or
[21:58] anything like this there, so I was just
[22:00] curious.
[22:00] >> This This one group This one spiritual
[22:02] group brought me over.
[22:04] But we sang I I sang in the uh that
[22:06] beautiful new um Harpa, yeah. Yeah.
[22:08] Yeah. Which I think it just built when I
[22:10] got there.
[22:11] >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was beautiful.
[22:12] >> Yeah, it's a cool place. What a
[22:13] building. Will you come back?
[22:15] Yeah, you know, it's Iceland is amazing.
[22:17] We went down to the beach. It was like
[22:18] 110°.
[22:20] And then we get into a car and we drove
[22:22] maybe
[22:23] 15 minutes up to this
[22:27] up up this canyon.
[22:29] And then we get into this machine. It's
[22:31] like a
[22:32] uh It had
[22:35] these paddles, but they're like
[22:37] 15 ft wide, right? These big paddles
[22:40] going around like this. So, we get up on
[22:41] this thing and it starts going up the
[22:44] mountain. In 10 minutes, we were in a
[22:47] blizzard. And it was like 30 below.
[22:50] Unbelievable. Went up right into a
[22:51] glacier. It was extraordinary. Within
[22:53] like, you know, 10 minutes, you're like
[22:54] on the beach, then you're in a glacier.
[22:56] It was amazing.
[22:58] What a place.
[23:00] Yeah.
[23:01] It's good. Thank you. Yeah, nice place.
[23:04] I love that.
[23:11] This episode is brought to you by SoHum
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[24:02] Yeah.
[24:02] >> Krishnadas. Hi.
[24:04] Ready Janet. Um
[24:07] I have a Hanuman Chalisa
[24:09] >> A little closer. Closer. I have a
[24:11] Hanuman Chalisa question. Okay.
[24:13] >> Um
[24:15] So, I enjoy chanting and and like today
[24:17] I loved it. But a lot of times I mumble
[24:20] through certain parts because I I just
[24:22] can't pronounce everything. And when
[24:24] COVID hit and you talked about the
[24:26] Hanuman Chalisa, I decided I really
[24:28] needed to learn it. Um that it'd be
[24:30] important, but it
[24:32] it
[24:34] I really struggled with it and it it it
[24:36] it caused a lot of stress.
[24:38] Um
[24:39] Yeah.
[24:40] You know, cuz I thought I I need to
[24:41] learn this so I could find some peace
[24:43] and
[24:44] and I
[24:47] And and I wasn't and um
[24:50] So, I think it was you that told the
[24:53] story about Neem Karoli Baba, put I
[24:55] forgot what song in in someone's head
[24:59] and that they could just sing it. Say
[25:00] that again. That there that you
[25:03] you told a story I think about Neem
[25:05] Karoli Baba that he put a song in
[25:07] someone's head in India and he was able
[25:09] to sing it and knew it perfectly.
[25:12] Oh yeah, yeah.
[25:14] That was the Bhagavad Gita, yeah.
[25:16] And so I thought, you know, I'm going to
[25:19] ask
[25:23] if Neem Karoli Baba would put this in my
[25:25] head so I could just repeat it.
[25:28] And um
[25:30] so
[25:31] I get on my bicycle and I spin and I put
[25:35] like a YouTube of the Hanuman Chalisa on
[25:37] or a CD and I just spin and I try to
[25:39] repeat it and learn it. And usually like
[25:42] I'll listen to Nina's cuz she has that
[25:44] nice long one and normally another Nina
[25:47] one pops up but this time the the next
[25:50] one that popped up was Neem Karoli Baba
[25:52] who I've never Googled and he's just
[25:54] going Ram Ram Ram Ram Ram and I thought,
[25:59] I can do that.
[26:01] You know.
[26:02] And
[26:05] so that's
[26:06] I
[26:07] it kind of took me off the hook from
[26:09] learning it.
[26:10] And I feel like I can just Ram Ram Ram.
[26:13] Um And I was just wondering what your
[26:15] thoughts were.
[26:18] My my thoughts are you are the hook.
[26:25] Um
[26:31] If you if if we could repeat the name
[26:37] constantly we would be.
[26:39] But it's not so easy.
[26:43] We have a lot of other stuff going on,
[26:45] habitual patterns of thought etc. etc.
[26:49] And the Hanuman Chalisa is a practice
[26:52] that purifies the heart.
[26:54] And the effort that it takes to learn it
[26:57] Now, it doesn't have to be memorized.
[26:58] Nobody said you had to memorize it.
[27:01] Carry around a little piece of paper,
[27:02] you know.
[27:04] You know.
[27:05] It No, it's not a test.
[27:07] But the Chalisa itself, the practice,
[27:09] Maharajji gave us that practice.
[27:12] And if you read the Chalisa, the
[27:14] translation,
[27:15] you you learn a lot
[27:18] um
[27:19] about Hanuman about
[27:22] a lot of things.
[27:25] Uh
[27:28] You know, and Maharajji said, "Go on
[27:30] singing your lying fake Ram Ram.
[27:33] One of these days the real your call
[27:35] will come out and the real Ram will
[27:36] come." So, it's not that you can just go
[27:38] Ram and that cuz we say Ram, but
[27:43] it's said that the name
[27:45] and what is named or God are not
[27:48] different.
[27:50] But when we say Ram,
[27:52] you know,
[27:53] nothing happens.
[27:55] So, we're not we don't have that
[27:57] awareness. We're not open that way.
[28:00] We're not our bandwidth is still too
[28:02] constrained.
[28:04] So, repetition of the name is also a
[28:06] purifying, no question about it.
[28:10] And Maharajji said, "Do it whether you
[28:12] feel any devotion or not, whether you're
[28:13] angry, whether you're tired, whatever.
[28:15] Just do it cuz if you don't do it, then
[28:17] what?"
[28:18] You don't plant seeds, nothing will
[28:19] grow.
[28:21] That being said,
[28:23] the practice of chanting Hanuman Chalisa
[28:25] is a very powerful.
[28:26] And it's a direct
[28:30] connection with Maharajji, who is
[28:32] Hanuman himself.
[28:34] And so,
[28:36] uh
[28:39] And if you want to learn it, there's
[28:40] those two, you know,
[28:42] the flow of grace CD. And the second CD
[28:45] has every word or every phrase very
[28:47] slowly,
[28:48] easy to repeat.
[28:51] Uh you can just do it. Just do it 10,000
[28:54] times. You'll know it. It doesn't have
[28:55] to be memorized.
[28:57] It's just some kind of weird trip that
[28:59] we do to ourselves.
[29:02] So,
[29:03] um yeah.
[29:05] So, it's okay just to keep um
[29:08] repeating it with you on the CD. Say
[29:10] what? So, it's it's okay just to keep
[29:12] repeating it with you on the CD.
[29:14] >> Of course it's okay. Why?
[29:15] Better than raping and killing.
[29:19] Right? Right. Then?
[29:24] Thank you. Yeah.
[29:32] Hello. Where are you? Over here. Oh,
[29:35] okay. Um my name is Peter and I'm
[29:39] uh kind of on this almost opposite
[29:41] journey of everybody else where I'm a
[29:43] Gen Z, so I'm kind of very young,
[29:45] especially among this group, and I don't
[29:47] have
[29:49] Sorry?
[29:51] What are you saying? What are you
[29:53] Gen Z? What happens after Z?
[29:58] You start back at A? I think they start
[30:00] going uh like delta and they start going
[30:02] Greek letters. Okay.
[30:04] Um and I'm sorry if I offended anybody.
[30:07] I just
[30:09] I don't even know what language you're
[30:11] talking.
[30:15] Go ahead. Go ahead.
[30:16] So, I I'm in this specific situation
[30:19] where I I feel strong calling towards
[30:22] service and towards kind of a spiritual
[30:24] path and that's very new towards my
[30:27] family and specifically even me. Mhm. Um
[30:30] and I I feel this calling towards
[30:31] specifically service in in any way I can
[30:34] find it, but I don't see many outlets in
[30:37] my my current life to find that. And I I
[30:40] always hear Ram Dass talking about
[30:43] the the classic be here now. You Your
[30:46] next step is always right in front of
[30:47] you, but that can be a little hard to
[30:48] find and especially when there's there's
[30:51] so many paths, especially for the
[30:52] younger generation, to go and there's so
[30:54] many needs of this world when it comes
[30:56] to different holes in the societies. And
[31:00] I was wondering if you had any help with
[31:03] the ability to find that path when it
[31:05] comes to
[31:06] specifically a spiritual practice, but
[31:08] also just a a pragmatic
[31:11] way to live life, I guess.
[31:15] Whatever else you do, sooner or later
[31:18] you're going to have to calm your mind
[31:19] down.
[31:20] So, start there. See what happens.
[31:24] And there's a million different
[31:25] practices to do that.
[31:27] You can just simply watch your breath
[31:29] come in and out. And if you do it well
[31:31] enough, you know, you can get
[31:32] enlightened just with that.
[31:35] But start somewhere. I mean, you start
[31:37] practicing calming calming yourself down
[31:40] a little bit, you know.
[31:41] And then
[31:43] see how things go. See what shows up in
[31:45] your life. Make The more open you are
[31:48] and receptive,
[31:49] the more you become aware of what's
[31:52] shows up.
[31:53] A lot of things are there that you're
[31:55] not aware of.
[31:56] Right around the corner. You
[31:58] You know, Krishna could be living next
[32:00] door, but until you look, you never see.
[32:04] Actually, he is.
[32:06] He's actually living in your house
[32:09] as you.
[32:13] Yeah, so, you know,
[32:15] this is what's called life
[32:18] and living.
[32:19] It happens. So, according to what you
[32:23] want in life
[32:24] and how you greet
[32:26] every day and every moment, you know,
[32:28] see what happens. It's uh it's exciting.
[32:32] Sometimes it's very depressing.
[32:35] But that's what's called an emotion. Let
[32:37] it go, come back to your breath.
[32:40] Don't believe what you think.
[32:42] Okay?
[32:43] That's the definition of insanity.
[32:46] We all believe what we think.
[32:49] Isn't that crazy?
[32:51] I mean, there's no reason for us to
[32:53] believe what we think, but we do.
[32:56] Yeah, I feel like today.
[32:58] Why?
[32:59] Why did I think that?
[33:02] I don't feel like
[33:04] Why did I think I did? It's weird. Okay.
[33:07] But
[33:08] calm your ass down. That's the main
[33:10] thing. Every day, just a couple of
[33:12] minutes at first, right? If you try too
[33:14] hard,
[33:15] you'll ruin everything.
[33:18] Just chill.
[33:20] Mhm? 3 minutes, 4 minutes. Set a timer
[33:23] so you don't sit there too long.
[33:26] Maybe an alarm clock to wake you up when
[33:28] you fall asleep in 30 seconds.
[33:32] Thank you. Yeah. Oh, good advice,
[33:35] really.
[33:42] Hi. Yeah.
[33:44] I wonder if you could Nah. No, probably
[33:46] not because
[33:48] of your attitude towards your your own
[33:51] stories now. Yeah. But I was wondering
[33:53] if you could elaborate on a story from
[33:56] your autobiography where Maharaji asked
[33:59] you to have courage.
[34:01] Um
[34:03] and I I
[34:04] I'm not sure in the book whether it
[34:08] you go into detail of like later in your
[34:10] life when you thought that that like you
[34:12] look back and said, "Oh, that's Yeah.
[34:15] he's addressing this moment." Like what
[34:17] So, I guess the question is
[34:19] can you continue that story and um how
[34:22] did you find the courage and what sort
[34:25] of grace was involved?
[34:27] Well,
[34:28] he had just told me that he was sending
[34:31] me back to America.
[34:33] And I was sitting there and my mind was
[34:35] currently spinning out, you know.
[34:38] I was thinking about chocolate chip
[34:39] cookies and
[34:42] Wheaties
[34:45] and you know
[34:47] going to basketball games again, you
[34:49] know.
[34:50] I was just going crazy sitting there,
[34:51] right?
[34:54] And I started to get worried. What am I
[34:55] going to do? I I just didn't know what I
[34:57] was going to do in America.
[34:59] And I still had
[35:01] January I still had
[35:04] like 3 months in India.
[35:06] He said when my visa was up, that's when
[35:08] I had to go back.
[35:09] So this was Christmas time
[35:12] and my visa was up at the beginning of
[35:14] March. So I still had a couple of
[35:15] months.
[35:18] Um
[35:21] So sitting there
[35:23] all of a sudden he sits up and he looks
[35:24] at me really intensely and he says
[35:27] "Courage is a really big thing."
[35:32] And the Indian guy goes, "Oh Baba, God
[35:35] takes care of his devotees."
[35:38] "Courage is a really big thing."
[35:43] I was thinking, "What's going to
[35:44] happen?" You know.
[35:46] So I just remembered that, you know, cuz
[35:48] he put it in there pretty strongly.
[35:52] And um
[35:59] I am There were a lot of times when
[36:02] all I had was the vague memory of that
[36:04] moment, which was just about enough to
[36:06] get me through
[36:08] whatever I was going through
[36:10] internally or externally. There were a
[36:12] lot of
[36:14] you know, horrible situations I found
[36:16] myself in over the years.
[36:19] Um
[36:22] But it was interesting
[36:24] because, you know
[36:29] we have all these ideas of oh God does
[36:32] everything or everything is karma or it
[36:34] doesn't matter
[36:35] but he was telling me courage was really
[36:38] important.
[36:40] So that was a big thing.
[36:43] I really there's not really much to
[36:44] elaborate about other than that.
[36:46] There were times that there was nothing
[36:48] but the memory of that and there wasn't
[36:49] any courage but just
[36:52] remembering that moment kind of okay got
[36:55] me through to the next moment.
[37:00] Thank you. Yeah.
[37:05] Mistakes
[37:06] uh
[37:08] you've been invited
[37:09] introduced to me maybe 3 4 years ago by
[37:12] a close friend of mine.
[37:14] And the first time I've heard you the
[37:15] tranquility of your voice actually taken
[37:18] me to a different plane.
[37:20] And since then I've been a huge fan of
[37:21] you.
[37:22] So along with me I brought 3 4 friends
[37:24] of mine kind of attend this resort so
[37:28] retreat.
[37:29] So the question to you what has been
[37:31] your experiences or transformational
[37:33] journey
[37:35] that took you on this path of bhakti
[37:37] marga?
[37:39] I don't think you're born as a singer or
[37:41] probably you're not born as a practicing
[37:43] singer. So what took you or what
[37:45] experiences led you to that path of
[37:48] bhakti yoga marga?
[37:52] I
[37:53] Bhakti gyan karma it's all the same.
[37:55] It's your life.
[37:57] Bhakti means love.
[37:59] And when I met my guru
[38:02] I fell in love.
[38:03] And I never fell out of that love.
[38:07] And that's bhakti.
[38:09] It's also wisdom because guru is
[38:13] everything.
[38:14] Whole universe so when you're in a
[38:15] living relationship with the universe
[38:17] everything changes.
[38:21] So um
[38:34] I don't know if there's been much
[38:36] transformation to tell you the truth. I
[38:38] mean, really.
[38:41] I just, you know,
[38:45] I just
[38:47] cut myself a break every once in a while
[38:49] now when I didn't used to.
[38:51] And as a result, I cut other people a
[38:53] break once in a while.
[38:56] Because everybody's guru.
[38:59] When I can see that, when I live in that
[39:01] space, then it's very different
[39:03] universe.
[39:05] And that's the way it really is.
[39:07] When guru is not a physical person,
[39:10] not limited to a body,
[39:12] a physical body.
[39:15] We think that because we think we are
[39:16] physical bodies. That's what we identify
[39:18] with.
[39:20] And so, when somebody says guru, you
[39:22] think of
[39:24] somebody out there.
[39:26] That's not what it is at all.
[39:30] Guru is like the
[39:35] like the the space of the sky.
[39:39] Inside everything is inside of that.
[39:41] There's nothing outside of that vast
[39:43] space, that vast presence.
[39:49] But we
[39:52] our minds, our stuff
[39:55] is focused on stuff, on little things,
[39:58] on forms and shapes and egos and psych-
[40:02] psych- psychology and all this stuff.
[40:05] So, we miss the space. We don't see
[40:07] this, we don't experience that presence
[40:10] in which we all live.
[40:14] When we do,
[40:15] then everything's fine.
[40:18] That's real devotion.
[40:21] And that's a mature devotion, a ripe
[40:24] devotion.
[40:26] But it starts
[40:28] very simply, you know, with
[40:32] a loving connection with with with
[40:34] either yourself or a being.
[40:38] You don't have to meet that being
[40:40] physically to feel the love.
[40:45] I felt the love for Maharajji when I met
[40:47] Ram Dass.
[40:49] And I felt I didn't know what it was at
[40:51] first, you know.
[40:53] I thought it was Ram Dass.
[40:56] But he very quickly abused me of that
[40:58] thought.
[41:00] Disabused me or whatever the word is. I
[41:02] beautifully explained it in your book
[41:04] though, by the way. That was very nice.
[41:05] >> Yeah, and he liked that, too.
[41:10] But uh, you know, so
[41:17] One has to experience these things
[41:19] oneself.
[41:29] But we
[41:30] we hear about them from other people.
[41:35] We hear about what's possible.
[41:38] But it's up to us to
[41:40] plant those seeds in our lives
[41:43] of the things that we want
[41:45] to experience.
[41:48] If we don't plant the seeds, nothing can
[41:50] grow.
[42:19] >> And no man shall listen is a very
[42:20] powerful practice
[42:23] for cleaning
[42:25] the mirror of the heart.
[42:28] The mirror is covered with with crud.
[42:31] All our stuff.
[42:34] So when we look into the mirror, all we
[42:36] see is the crud. We don't see
[42:39] what really could be reflected.
[42:43] But as the crud is polished off,
[42:46] our we see more clearly and more
[42:50] accurately
[42:52] what's reflected in that mirror.
[42:55] So on one hand, we're looking in a
[42:58] mirror ourselves.
[43:00] And when
[43:02] the mirror is all our stuff.
[43:05] All the me me me stuff, all the ego
[43:07] stuff, all the greed, the selfishness,
[43:09] the shame, the fear, the all that stuff.
[43:12] The anger.
[43:14] All that stuff.
[43:17] However, this is the mirror.
[43:22] Right now,
[43:25] what you're looking into is a mirror.
[43:28] And you're seeing your stuff.
[43:31] All your all our
[43:34] our
[43:35] ideas, all our interpretations, all our
[43:40] likes and dislikes,
[43:42] all our frustrations, all our
[43:44] needingness, all our beauty,
[43:46] all the everything.
[43:49] So as we clean our hearts, everything we
[43:52] see changes.
[43:54] It's like
[43:56] it's like you're born with
[43:57] uh
[43:58] glasses on
[44:01] that are the wrong prescription.
[44:03] But you don't know that. So you look
[44:05] around and everything kind of what it
[44:07] is. You don't doesn't seem weird to you
[44:09] cuz it's what you were born with.
[44:12] Little by little,
[44:14] that those glasses start prescription
[44:16] changes.
[44:18] It self-corrects, and little by little
[44:19] things come into
[44:22] clarity.
[44:24] And clear, everything becomes clear.
[44:26] And you see things as they are, and then
[44:28] you see yourself as you really are.
[44:32] And that's the result of practice,
[44:34] spiritual practice.
[44:37] Or in in a very general sense.
[44:42] So, we're all in our own little version
[44:44] of of the universe.
[44:47] But we share a bandwidth, so
[44:50] we can talk to each other.
[44:53] We can see all these bodies and all
[44:55] these minds and all this stuff.
[44:58] But when
[45:00] the mirror of the heart is perfectly
[45:03] clear,
[45:05] everything is very different.
[45:06] And there's only what's when you you
[45:08] experience the oneness of it all.
[45:15] And on the way to that oneness, a lot of
[45:18] different qualities arise, compassion
[45:20] and kindness,
[45:22] equanimity,
[45:24] happiness,
[45:28] just for no reason.
[45:30] Just because that's who we are.
[45:42] And Maharaji said,
[45:44] Ram Nam
[45:45] says Buddha
[45:46] from going on repeating these names,
[45:49] everything is accomplished.
[45:54] Whatever it is, it's accomplished.
[45:58] It's made full and complete.
[46:07] >> I like I've I've had um
[46:11] Dysentery?
[46:13] Not yet.
[46:13] >> Uh-huh. Long long long way to go though.
[46:15] Probably going to happen.
[46:17] Um
[46:19] So I've had like I've had these deep and
[46:21] profound
[46:23] um
[46:24] awakening experiences in my life. Um
[46:30] And
[46:31] I used to be
[46:34] a person who
[46:37] sought uh ceaseless pleasure.
[46:40] Good luck.
[46:42] Right.
[46:44] Um
[46:46] And so I recognize that that's a fool's
[46:48] errand.
[46:50] Um and I I no longer seek that. Uh like
[46:52] I really feel
[46:56] like I want to I want to be here for all
[46:58] of life.
[46:59] Uh that includes
[47:02] all of it. The horror,
[47:04] uh
[47:06] the pain,
[47:07] love, beauty, like all of it.
[47:09] Um and so like I feel this
[47:14] resistance to the possibility
[47:19] of enlightenment.
[47:22] Um
[47:24] partially because like I don't believe
[47:26] like
[47:27] I guess I question if there would even
[47:29] be a me there to experience it. Like
[47:31] this idea of enlightenment being a
[47:33] transcendence of
[47:37] be being being human, being here, being
[47:39] here in this form. I love that you're
[47:41] making these faces at me.
[47:43] Um
[47:44] Yeah, it's totally the opposite of that,
[47:46] of course.
[47:48] You're totally here.
[47:51] And there's nothing in your way.
[47:53] Everything is experienced.
[47:56] Because there's nothing to to to filter
[47:59] or to push away or to judge or evaluate.
[48:03] Wide open total presence.
[48:07] Which is who you are already. So,
[48:08] there's no sense fighting it. That's who
[48:09] you are.
[48:11] All this other stuff is just stuff.
[48:14] Let it go.
[48:17] By saying you want to be here for all of
[48:18] it, you're actually
[48:20] narrowing it down pretty
[48:23] pretty fiercely.
[48:25] Don't want to say it. Don't even think
[48:26] it. Just be here.
[48:29] But that's not so easy.
[48:30] Cuz we're always thinking all this
[48:32] stuff.
[48:33] When when the me is not functioning
[48:39] you're completely present with
[48:41] everything and everyone and everything
[48:43] completely. Absolutely. There's no fear.
[48:45] There's no distance.
[48:47] You're out of your own way.
[48:50] It's just exactly the way you know it
[48:53] is.
[48:54] But can't get there yet.
[48:58] So.
[49:01] And it's just another storyline that
[49:03] you're identifying with.
[49:05] Which is got to go anyhow, so
[49:08] let it go.
[49:12] Thank you. I I had a another question.
[49:15] Wait. He's He's busy. Hold on. He's
[49:17] saying something.
[49:20] Uh okay.
[49:22] So,
[49:23] um
[49:24] like you had you've lived this amazing
[49:27] life with these amazing experiences. You
[49:31] think so? And uh
[49:33] these awakenings
[49:36] were being
[49:36] >> Falling asleep.
[49:37] >> Right.
[49:40] So, I'm curious about um
[49:42] your current experience. Like we all
[49:44] we're all coming starry-eyed looking at
[49:46] you. And if there's a like one a need
[49:49] for you like do you do you look outward
[49:53] for something
[49:56] to a person, a discipline, and like do
[49:59] is your current experience is there a
[50:02] deepening, a deeper awakening, and or
[50:06] what like what challenges you now in in
[50:09] life? I'm curious about your current
[50:10] experience.
[50:17] I'm just hanging out.
[50:20] I don't have much of an agenda.
[50:23] Uh
[50:27] uh
[50:29] I signed the line and said I'd be here
[50:31] for a few days, so I drove over from my
[50:33] house.
[50:35] Other than that, I didn't make any
[50:36] commitments to be exceptionally holy or
[50:38] anything. I just
[50:40] just said I'd be here with y'all.
[50:43] Um
[51:07] What did you ask?
[51:15] Does somebody else want to re-answer it?
[51:17] No.
[51:20] We could roll the tape back and
[51:22] >> Like that.
[51:25] Oh, like there Well, I asked like a
[51:27] load of questions. That's really the
[51:28] problem here. Um
[51:30] like if one, if you're seeking
[51:32] inspiration elsewhere, is there like a
[51:34] current deepening or awakening, or like
[51:36] do what is showing up as as challenging
[51:39] or like in the way for you
[51:41] these days?
[51:42] >> Mhm.
[51:45] It's true.
[51:47] Having to get here at 2:00 in the
[51:48] afternoon is hard.
[51:52] Okay, so uh I love uh yeah, I get
[51:54] inspiration of I go to I look to find
[51:56] saints, yogis.
[51:59] I met a couple of really great yogis in
[52:01] India this time. Wow.
[52:04] And they're still here. It's
[52:06] unbelievable.
[52:08] Let me tell you, they're here. It's
[52:10] extraordinary.
[52:13] So, that's what I That's I'm a I'm a
[52:14] saint junkie. That's what I am.
[52:18] And it's all my heart idea. I don't I
[52:19] It's not like people say, "Oh, I don't
[52:21] know about that." Yeah,
[52:22] it's all my
[52:24] Everything that happens happens inside
[52:26] of him, so I don't worry about that.
[52:28] But, I love I love
[52:30] finding, you know,
[52:34] It's
[52:35] And you know, I just love saints, you
[52:37] know, I love
[52:38] the beings that
[52:40] that shine so much.
[52:42] It's great.
[52:47] That's very inspiring.
[52:49] Just knowing that they're here is very
[52:51] inspiring cuz we get
[52:53] you know, we see the world going down
[52:55] the toilet and
[52:58] we wonder, is there any use or any hope?
[53:00] And how could it get like this?
[53:03] But, there are beings who know exactly
[53:05] what's going on, who are doing what has
[53:06] to be done, and it's all My heart used
[53:09] to say, "It's all perfect." It's a hard
[53:11] one.
[53:13] That's a really hard one. Ram Dass
[53:14] wanted to take his van and go be a
[53:18] like an ambulance out in in Bangladesh
[53:20] when all this bad stuff was happening.
[53:23] My heart used to say, "Ram Dass,
[53:25] don't you understand? It's all perfect."
[53:28] That's really hard cuz people are
[53:30] suffering.
[53:31] That means suffering is also perfect.
[53:35] We don't like suffering, so how could it
[53:37] be perfect?
[53:39] Well,
[53:40] that's a good question.
[53:45] So,
[53:46] that's very inspiring to me. And then
[53:53] the only thing in the way
[53:55] for me is me. So,
[53:59] working on it.
[54:07] I'm not in a particular hurry, but I'm
[54:09] working on it.
[54:10] Time goes by, though.
[54:16] Things happen.
[54:26] Thanks for listening, everyone.
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